As Seen On Facebook | So I am still waiting on a response in relation to this from Shine Ireland … via Ausome Cork 


So I am still waiting on a response in relation to this from Shine Ireland.

I am extremely concerned, not only by the original query, but also by their response.

Autistic children should not be subjected to any of this. It is not good for them now or for their mental health in the future.

As far as I know Shine have not had any input from autistics into any of these programs, nor to they employ any autistic people in their organization. But again I welcome their response on this. If I don’t hear back soon I shall be starting an email campaign because the Autistic Community in Ireland have a voice and so do concerned parents.

You cannot publish programs and advice like this publicly and not defend it. I am very concerned for our children in this country.


Alex Cockell Blows a hole through NSPCC guidelines on bodily autonomy…


Ausome Cork Have you a link to that Alex? It might be very helpful


 

Alex Cockell Ausome Cork Kinda indirectly to do with Safeguarding. I am autistic myself, was diagnosed by Lorna Wing personally in 1987. I seem to recall a lot of issues around abuse through Lovaas/ABA and Facilitated Communication at the time. ASD kids are taught conditioned compliance – which means they are never able to have their “no” respected. NSPCC safeguarding stuff – https://www.nspcc.org.uk/…/preventing-child-sexual-abuse/

Consider Jimmy Savile worked at Stoke Mandeville – and many of that cohort were in his audiences – so it all hooks into the extra protection etc….

By overriding and teaching conditioned compliance – the ASD kid’s “yes” could be deemed always under duress… especially if they are also taught to mask… be the “perfect victim”.

I was sexually abused by predatory older kids… and suicidally ate for 30 years…

I was part of the early online autism advicacy and activism in the 90s tracked by Steve Siberman- I was there when Jim Sinclair released Don’t Mourn for us. Also read Loud Hands…



Ausome Cork Alex Cockell thank you. So you mean …. my objection to this isn’t just my own autistic brained opinion? Other autistic people think to encourage children to complain, to advocate, to stand up for themselves would be safeguarding them?

You were diagnosed 31 years ago Alex? My goodness…. you must have a wealth of experience and knowledge to share…. I’d love to hear your opinion on the terrible worksheet being promoted here in Ireland


Alex Cockell Ausome Cork Yup… we used to satirise all of this shit – eg – https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=isnt%20autistics…

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Alex Cockell We worked hard to debunk Lovaas, Rimland (I was DX’d in Sep 87, Rain Man was released in May 88), CAN/DAN (predecessors to Autism Speaks/Autistica), and Wakefield. Eve Reiland has a lot of background on her International Badass Activists page – and her Youtube channel – https://internationalbadassactivists.org/ – she recently started going through the history of ASD activism – what I was involved in. I also took part in all the research between 1988 and 2001..
INTERNATIONALBADASSACTIVISTS.ORG
Ausome Cork Alex, do mean to say that Autistic adults have been campaigning for decades and we still aren’t being heard? My goodness, I guess it’s hard to be heard when others have louder voices, when others ridicule you and others think they know best.

Have you any idea why this keeps happening? I thought people would be delighted for me to help their kids have a better future…. a safe childhood but it seems it’s the same here now in Ireland in 2018…. maybe we should just give up


 

Ausome Cork It seems as if we’re trying to fight for recognition as human beings…. like we’re following in the footsteps of LGBT ….


 

Alex Cockell Ausome Cork Yup… we are. Jenny McCarthy wants us dead – kinda like how jUlie Burchill wants all sex workers dead…


 

Ausome Cork Alex Cockell terrible isn’t it…. people want us dead, people want us to shut up, to be silenced, to stop having our crazy opinions….


 

Alex Cockell Ausome Cork Basically 2 American Soccer Moms formed Autism $peak$ out of the ashes of CAN and DAN – America was alwaus Curebie – compared to NAS – which would have also been that way if it hadn’t been for my mother pushing the nascent NAS to an Empower model on my behalf…

We managed to get Laurence Benjamin Arnold onto teh NAS board in the 90s to the consternation of the Yummy Curebie Mummies who wanted to lock away their Barnaby Rudges (NAS ran a character study on the guy in the 80s – I cross-compared Elsa from Frozen in a recent post on my own timeline – sadly the blog about Frozen and neurodiversity was taken down).. this (Larry) was in about 1996.

I remembe the blazing rows on the old LISTSERV lists in the 90s when American schools were handing out Ritalin like Smarties to neurodivergent kids… and the constant fight between Empower vs Curebie models…

We were almost there. But then Eternal September and COlumbine happened, along with neuroatypical shaming.

Also there was Gamergate recently – when loads of put-upon ASD folk basically retailiated against jocks like Sam Biddle in GAwker when he tweeted “bring back bullying”…

Autism Speaks, through its UK arm Autistica – now has a seat on the NAS board of trustees – so it’s a massive fight against he remedicalising of ASD folk…

Also interesting that the person who whistle-blew over LIBOR was an Aspie…

And now when I hear of ASD kids beign called “mongs” by Brexiteer bus drivers int he same way I was called a “spastic” before Scope changed their name back in the 70s… also add how some aspects of gender expression can be inverted in ASD folk… it is all affected. We’re the world’s eccentrics…

Seeing it all beign undone… and the pushback starting as Eve managed to linkt he autistic generations… as we’re able to help with hisotrical info.

Neurotribes and Loud Hands are critical reading… Temple Grandin is an “Uncle Tom” now… we have a long fight ot regain ground. Thrre might be some allies in sex workers whjo want full-decrim as Amnesty recommend… and with us following on behind LGBT folk… one possible lead might be to get Tom Robinson to rework Glad to be Gay as Glad to be A…


Ausome Cork Alex and we all know Autism Speaks hates autistics , do you know they’re funding stuff here in Ireland? Trying to collect our dna so they can eradicate us? And it all starts with ….. teaching is not to complain

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Alex Cockell Ausome Cork You got it. We’re the canaries in the mineshaft – for Aktion T4 to be resurrected…

Yup- A$ is the Anti-NAS.. undoing all the work NAS did…

And the next step would have been enabling us to be fully human and even… sexual citizens..

There’s a shitload of ableism active in mixed-neurology couples… almost along the lines of miscegnation rules from the 1920s as portrayed in Show Boat…


Laurence Benjamin Arnold Alex Cockell Was called Spaz and Mong in the playground when I was growing up, it was not nice.


 

Alex Cockell Laurence Benjamin Arnold Yup – I got those as well… Do you mind me tagging you in on this one? As Ireland and UK try to regain the ground we gained – then A$ took?


 

Ausome Cork Laurence horrible words to use for any human being. I’m sorry you were treated this way


 

Laurence Benjamin Arnold Alex Cockell Tag away. If my mum were still alive I know whose side she would be on.


 

Ausome Cork Laurence would you be concerned that an autism charity are promoting this?

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Ausome Cork I am very worried for the children here


 

Alex Cockell Ausome Cork I bloody am…


 

Laurence Benjamin Arnold Ausome Cork Yes it still hurts. It is not that I distance myself now from people who have the label of cerebral palsy or downs syndrome because we are comrades in adverstity.


 

Alex Cockell You only have to look at the amount of Complex PTSD that LGBT folk suffered from going through Lovaas’s stuff – even portrayed on Call the Midwife.. and the numbers are coming out now with loads of C-PTSD from ABA…

https://www.youtube.com/results…

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Laurence Benjamin Arnold Ausome Cork In answer to those questions I would say most probably not, “quiet hands” was never a thing of mine and I used to rock in my chair to the extent that I would sometimes fall out. I would also stare out of the window and not look at the teacher, so yeah I do not like it that an autism charity is promoting this crap.


 

Ausome Cork Laurence me neither, it’s a pity not everyone sees the dangers we see


 

Alex Cockell Ausome Cork It’s only really the folk int he firing line – us- whjo see it..


 

Ausome Cork Alex do you think? That someone who hadn’t been through it can’t understand it? I mean I haven’t had ABA but I certainly know how damaging it is not to be allowed to be yourself. To stifle your reactions, to say no….


 

Alex Cockell Ausome Cork Behaviourism and CBT etc – is cultural ABA. Shaming, shunning.. The Social Contract… White lies… NT masking IS ABA>..


 

Alex Cockell Ausome Cork “Don’t let them in… conceal, don;t reveal…”… #takethemaskoff is the anti-ABA movement – and this is its anthem- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0MK7qz13bU

Alex Cockell Madonna/Whore is the sociosexual equivalent of Quiet Hands and ABA>… same shaming…


 

Alex Cockell Ausome Cork Boot camps that are common in the STates – same deal…


Emma Dalmayne This is so very wrong and to be shared by an Autism org as well? Disgusting.


Alex Cockell Emma Dalmayne Tagging – so you’re awa re as well


 

Alex Cockell Eve Reiland So you;re aware….


 

Ausome Cork Seems that sonas are using ABA

Manage

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Alex Cockell I’ve tagged some other major activists so they’re aware of this push as well..


 

Vicki Murphy Ausome Cork, I thought quiet hands meant no hitting or lashing out??

Edit: I just asked my son and he says that’s what it means but if he wants to shake his hands he is still allowed (his words).


Marie Tririlly ‘Quiet Hands’ is a form of behavior Modification to tell the autistic person hand flapping, because they are happy excited or frustrated in ‘NOT OK’! Its a communication – in a different way TO EXPRESS EMOTION, no matter what behavior we modify, our behaviors are ours exclusively, and this is an autistic behavior. Like my son who is a teenager jumps because he is happy, energized, or possibly frustrated. I believe its a short cut to using words, as well as a movement break!! How’s that for multi tasking?! There is no way, it needs to ‘be extinct’ – It is part of who he is…..


 

Ausome Cork Vicki ‘Quiet Hands’ means quiet hands, in the context above it means ‘keep your hands still’ .

It’s a well known ABA term, why do you ask?


 

Vicki Murphy Ausome Cork my son is autistic and I use the term quiet hands to stop him hitting or lashing out- it’s used in his school too. I see where you are coming from but I though I would mention that there might be another reason to use it. I absolutely disagree with ABA and would be horrified to think it was being used in my son’s school, which is why I asked him what it means.


 

Ruth OMalley Yes Vicky that’s what they were taught and we got a book to support this quiet hands was pushing hitting etc Ryan said the same


 

Vicki Murphy Marie Tririlly I understand stimming – and yes it’s hugely important. It helps my son ground himself. I firmly believe children should be taught to accept others whether they ‘conform’ to neurotypical behaviour or not – I want my son to grow up being confident and accepted for who he is not who someone else perceives he should be.


 

Ausome Cork Vicki I’ve seen it used / misused so I understand where you’re coming from. I actually saw someone use it when a child was clearly communicating ‘no’, they took the child’s hands and put them by his side and said ‘quiet hands’ so this wasn’t even the correct ABA use and they clearly didn’t even realize a child who had no words need their hands to say no! (This was someone with 4 yrs working in early intervention so I was v concerned).

It is a traditional ABA term where they try to stop/ limit stimming. That’s why I’m quite concerned of its use in this context above which is certainly ABA, that’s a typical ABA worksheet, plus the whole website uses ABA terms like ‘4 functions of behavior’. And that in their reply the mention ‘access to stim time’

Unfortunately teachers are actually getting this kind of training and there are plans to bring PBS (ABA under another name) into all our autism schools.

I think it’s really important that parents know the exact context that anything like ‘quiet hands’ is used in their school. Maybe gentle hands might have a clearer message?


 

Ausome Cork Vicki also stimming has many other functions- you might be interested in this https://www.facebook.com/108360613173814/posts/245969369412937/

Manage

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Ausome Cork

📍Re-defining Autism: Pioneering Thinking📍

Anyone with an interest in Autism knows that Autistics think differently. Well the good news is we have started to thi

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Vicki Murphy Ausome Cork yes! I saw that and I’m trying to find a babysitter…


 

Ausome Cork Vicki fingers crossed you do, it’ll be a great talk.


 

Ausome Cork Ruth what’s the book?


 

Kay Hanna In my studies when working with autistic children and adults I saw quiet hands regularly used in a classroom/day service setting to mean ‘keep still’ ie don’t stim. ‘Hands to yourself’ was used to remind not to touch or hit others.


 

Sarah Mccoy We use quiet hands for no hitting


 

Ausome Cork Sarah and I can see how that makes sense, quiet hands in the context above is obviously not that.

Libuse Tipp Did I complain (-1)

not sure where this self-evaluation came from but

simply it doesn’t make sense and doesnt suit to any group of people ..


 

Ausome Cork Well certainly not vulnerable children anyway Libuse, that’s for sure


 

Samantha McBreen From what I read yesterday on the link you posted, one of their advisors is a Behaviour Analyst so that would explain a lot.


 

Ausome Cork Yes Samantha, it’s totally ABA based


 

Kate Arthurs I’m so glad you’re challenging this. It’s despicable. You wouldn’t do it to a dog like.

David-Sinead Langan Exactly ….


 

Ausome Cork Well unfortunately that’s exactly what it is, this is based on the same programs we use to train dogs to obey


Lenore Good I am disappointed as a parent of a child who has attended one school and is a pupil of the other being targeted here. I really think you should have a chat with the parents of the children attending the places you are talking about and get their feedback before you burn them all at the stake. Maybe it might be a good idea to discuss your concerns in their practices with them directly instead of on here as it is your opinion, (which you are absolutely entitled to) but it is a completely one sided argument. You fail to recognise and mention the FREE advocacy service they provide for families of children on the spectrum nationwide, how this service alone helps families tremendously when there is zero help out there, how these are both two of the ONLY schools in Cork which are early learnung units and a junior school for children with autism. When we are up against as it us with the outside world who have no clue what it is to live with autism, we really don’t need to be tearing those who are doing a whole lot of good within our own circle down. My son has come on phenomenally in the last year thanks to Shine Ireland and the staff there are fantastic. I stood outside the door of that school every day for a year and believe me I have never seen any children more excited to go in. If it was as horrible as you make it out to be, where they are strapped to a table and made do things on command, then I would have been dragging my child out of the car and not watching him bowl the person (also mentioned here in the above comments) over every morning as he was so genuinely happy to see her and all of the staff. I have attended conferences where the ethos was to educate people and for us all to learn and not charge us astronomical prices in a society where many prey on the same families crying out for help with their prices, my daughters have attended the FREE sibling workshops they provided, I am now attending workshops provided by Sonas and cant fault what they are trying to do as a school, their staff are fantastic, again I am speaking firsthand watching my own son and other children who attend there and OUR feedback as parents. Please pick up the phone or arrange a meeting in regards with what you are having an issue with or at least highlight the positives that they do every day also.


Susan Grainger Well said 👏


 

Ciara Fehilly 100% agree with everything lenore said!!!!! My son also attended #shineireland and in that year alone was the happiest child ever. Hugging all people involved with his day there. Educators, class mates and other parents. That is a happy child, a child See More


Trina Murphy How do u know anyone with asd ever applied to shine for a job ? I’ve attended many of their workshops delivered by all different staff of shine and I found all of them fantastic. And we implemented some practical things at home that really helped as aresult of each workshop. They didn’t charge for any of them. I attended the conference they organised with the rainbow club a few weeks ago (that only cost €20 BTW) and again it was fantastic. I have many friends who’s kids have attended shine and not one of them have a bad word to say about the organisation or the staff. And thousands have attended shine for help with many forms and advice etc. They are a wonderful organisation and frankly I find any ‘autism advocate’ attacking them on social media disturbing. There are ways to do things. The lack of respect and consideration for a fellow asd organisation is astonishing


 

Ilany Adoptie What they want is that the autistic child must be compliant. Quiet hands , ugh. Don’t complain. Just be quiet. Good job. 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️


 

Mark Rowan Best Sing it with me! ‘Autistic people do not need to be fixed! Non inclusive society needs to be fixed!’



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